What the World Will Become
Welcome to What the World Will Become, a podcast about the humans who dedicate their lives to building a more free and just world. In Season 1, we heard from women-identified and gender non-conforming activists around the globe who are carving out spaces for creative resistance and new possibilities in the face of profound challenges. Now, in Season 2—presented entirely in Spanish—we continue these powerful conversations, centering voices from across Latin America and beyond.
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What the World Will Become
Episode 2: Nutriendo Nuestros Cuerpos y Movimientos – Autocuidado Feminista en Acción
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In this second episode, Estefanía and Cony interview Ana Zeto, from Guatemala, who explains feminist self-care in her indigenous worldview, which includes keeping the environment healthy, taking care of the rivers, and nourishing our bodies by eating nutritious food. Then, they speak with Elena Lorac from the Dominican Republic, who emphasizes the need for financing to expand restorative activist convenings like IGLI in Latin America and the world, suggesting that encounters of creativity and rest are essential for helping activists recharge emotionally as they pursue their critical work.
En este segundo episodio, Estefanía y Cony entrevistan a Ana Zeto, de Guatemala. Ana explica el autocuidado feminista según su cosmovisión indígena, que incluye mantener un medio ambiente sano, cuidar a los ríos, y nutrir nuestro cuerpo con alimentos nutritivos. Luego, hablarán con Elena Lorac, de la República Dominicana, quien enfatiza la necesidad del financiamiento para expandir encuentros de activismo restaurativo como IGLI en Latinoamérica y el mundo. Para Elena, los encuentros de creatividad y descanso son esenciales para ayudar a las activistas a recargar energías emocionales mientras realizan tan importante trabajo.
So,
SPEAKER_00Hello, everyone, and welcome to What the World Will Become. I'm Marie Berry, and I'm thrilled to welcome you to a Spanish-language mini-season of our podcast. This season is guest-hosted by Estefania Cubillos and Connie Oviedo. In this second episode, Ana Zeto from Guatemala explains how feminist self-care in her Indigenous worldview includes keeping the environment healthy, taking care of rivers, and nourishing her body by eating well. Then, our hosts speak with Elena Lorac from the Dominican who emphasizes the need for financing to expand restorative activist convenings like IGLI in Latin America and the world, suggesting that encounters of creativity and rest are essential for helping activists recharge emotionally as they pursue their critical work.
SPEAKER_01My name is
SPEAKER_06Baisapa. and Latin America 2024. During this second episode, we want to introduce you directly from Guatemala to Ana Zeta Chávez, an indigenous woman from Ixchil who belongs to the organization of women in Ixchil. She works with teenage and adult women in her region. Within the topics they deal with are the environment, human rights and sexual rights. From her perspective, Ana defines self-care as a realistic community environment to put life in the
SPEAKER_01center.
SPEAKER_04Without a doubt, Ana's reflections show us how feminist
SPEAKER_06self-care goes beyond theory. Let's hear what she has to
SPEAKER_04say. First of all, I think that for our self-care, Primero tenemos que cuidar el medio donde estamos, el medio ambiente, nuestro entorno. Entonces pienso yo de que tenemos que estar en un espacio sano, saludable. Entonces nosotras, como personas personalmente, entonces tenemos que hacer que ese ambiente sea sano. Entonces en este caso cuidar el medio ambiente. Por ejemplo, no quemar la basura, no tirar la basura, evitar utensilios desechables, evitar el uso de utensilios is to try to consume organic foods and not preserved foods, to try to consume foods with which I do not damage and contaminate the environment, in this case the soil, the rivers.
SPEAKER_06The learnings were varied. In NGLI 2024, And for Ana, sharing among women
SPEAKER_04was something very important. Being with many women from different countries, from different cultures, I learned that we have something in common, that most of them are leaders, that from their countries they fight for security, for peace, in all senses. So, at the end of each working day, After social activism, one needs personal care, right? That many times we neglect. I think that's the important thing I learned from IGLY, to value ourselves as a person, as a woman, as a leader, and take into account that we, as leaders, are a very valuable element for our bases, for our community, for our family, for our society.
SPEAKER_06IGLY was a space dedicated to giving and receive contributions, just as
SPEAKER_04Ana highlights it. Not to neglect the environment, not to neglect nature, because we all depend on the soil. It is something that we must value, that everything comes from the soil, from the land. So we must value and respect the soil a lot, which is the mother earth for us here in Guatemala, and more for us Mayasichines, right? Mayasichines. The important thing is nature, because most of us here are rural women. It's
SPEAKER_06time to get to know, along with my colleague Estefanía, what other important moments were there for our colleague Ana.
SPEAKER_05This moment was enriching thanks to the orality. Sharing a common language became the perfect opportunity for Ana to interact with the other Igli colleagues in Tepoztlán, Mexico.
SPEAKER_04What I liked the most is that I think Que cosa fuera Que cosa fuera La masa sin
SPEAKER_08cantera It is time to know the
SPEAKER_05story of Ingracia, another Guatemalan Muxi woman who participated in the Igli 2024 meeting and who, in the company of Ana, represented her country and shared with all the Igli members in
SPEAKER_08Tepoztlán. What a thing was the mass without quarrel, a test of iron of the traitor of applause, She
SPEAKER_04is a leader, she is the indigenous mayor, she is within an ancestral authority. She is the authority that existed, but due to colonization, due to racism and all that, that authority disappeared and the one that is currently in force was imposed, which is the Western law that we call it, as well as the positive law in force. So, after the signing of the peace agreements, they were once again vindicating this ancestral authority. And she, as a woman, always with the support of the very small organization, has positioned herself quite a bit within this ancestral authority. It is an authority where she actively participates in donations, she does not receive a salary, she does it together with other authorities, both women and men. Ellos pues más velan por el territorio, por los recursos naturales, por la resolución de conflictos. Pues esta resolución, el trabajo que ellos hacen, pues no tienen costo. Es gratuito a comparación de las autoridades estatales, ¿verdad?, que tiene un costo. Por ejemplo, si se llevan los casos en la vía judicial, pues hay que contratar a un abogado cuyos honorarios son muy elevados. Well, the work she does is free work. Well, with the fact of leaving one of your countries, right? No way, the jobs will never end. But also the exit that we had with the support of INE, we could also take it as a vacation, right? And I think that in all the workplaces, they do not end, they have no end. So I think that as human beings, we deserve it, right? And not only did we go to rest, but we also went to learn a lot from the other companions, who are mostly leaders in their countries, in their communities, and also have a history. In many cases, we had some issues in common.
SPEAKER_06The funding is a fertile seed for Glee to continue. and Ana makes an invitation for this collective care initiative
SPEAKER_04not to end. If they had the chance to do it, because I think this is the only opportunity to support women leaders in the world, women who, without rest, fight for peace, for the well-being, not only of women, but of humanity in general. to see the possibility that they continue to support, right? And if possible, increase the budget and benefit more women leaders, because the truth is that there are many, many leaders, activists, right? Human rights at a global
SPEAKER_08level. In front there is a path, I go for it. After listening to Ana in
SPEAKER_06such an organic interview, we go straight to the Dominican Republic, a country with beautiful beaches and the sun of the merengue, we will discover how Elena Lorac resists in her community. Ella es una mujer negra que trabaja como coordinadora de un movimiento denominado Reconocido.
SPEAKER_08Memoria americana de la canción Y vaya donde vaya, say tierra que hay
SPEAKER_05This is a movement that unites Dominicans of Haitian descent. Next, let's get to know how IGLI opened Elena's expectations regarding the activism she does and the new concepts she learned. For me,
SPEAKER_03IGLI meant an openness, an encounter, de saberes de desconstrucciones de revitalización y de buscar el significado de lo que somos desde nuestras experiencias y de nuestro trabajo y la creatividad en la que se marcó el encuentro y desde ese encuentro pues también se fomentó todo el tema de la autocuidada y para mí luego de ese encuentro fue fundamental el saber que el trabajo que como defensoras y defensores de derechos humanos que soy. Atraviesco con muchas dificultades, realidades, desde la vida cotidiana, desde que nos levantamos, luego también nuestra vida como activista, con todos los desafíos y retos que implica ser activista, y más en nuestro país, donde el tema que trabajamos es un tema sumamente... Es un tema que a muchas poblaciones no le agrada y nos consideran como una amenaza para la sociedad dominicana. Entonces tenemos que lidiar a diario con todo el tema del discurso de odio, con el tema de las situaciones de los jóvenes que se encuentran en una vulnerabilidad extrema, las cuales hay que hacerle frente, lidiar también con toda la opresión del sistema político, social, económico, cultural y todo eso. Entonces, So being able to maintain self-care and also understand that in our lives was crucial. So I understand that in these moments in which we are, self-care is important for me because if I don't take care of myself, Well, I won't have that strength to be able to keep going with that work and that work that I've had to assume, also as a result of all those violations to my own fundamental rights and also to those of the other young people who are in this situation.
SPEAKER_05For Elena, getting to IGLY became a whole process of exploration, where her network of friends, and especially activists, supported her so that she could
SPEAKER_03achieve it. In fact, I didn't know IGLY. Wow. No sé si trabajas en organizaciones de la sociedad civil y todo eso. Nuestras agendas son sumamente extensas, cargadas, es muy acelerada y no hay tiempo ni siquiera para ocio, ni para uno darse ese encuentro con uno mismo. Entonces, al ver esa agenda donde tenía un espacio de conocernos, de recreación, de despejar la mente, for me it was a A very special, very pleasant moment. And of course, that met my expectations. And more in the moments in which I was, for example. Just in these last two years, we have been living a moment of a lot of tension as a Dominican population in the Dominican Republic for the whole issue of... of anti-Haitianism, the deportations and expulsions of young people who were born here in the Dominican Republic, the issue of hate speech that has been sent to other conservative groups that threaten us, even by killing us, they call us to harass us on social networks, on our cell phones and all this, and that... Pues nos ponía en una situación de mucha tensión. Entonces llegué allá con todo esto. With all these realities. And well, and finding a program, a group of women with so many strengths and life experience from different parts of the country, of the world. And seeing that, and they are still standing, that gave me a lot of
SPEAKER_06strength. Creativity. fue un elemento presente en IGLY que llamó la atención en Elena y transformó su perspectiva para disfrutar en colectividad.
SPEAKER_03Toda lo implementado por IGLIS a través de la creatividad, desde esos juegos de pinturas, desde dibujarnos, también de conectar con esa niña y niña que tenemos dentro. Desde cuando quizás no tomamos un pincel, un lápiz, porque ya lo vemos que son cosas de niño. Entonces poder también dibujar nuestras experiencias, nuestras realidades a través de pinturas, a través de historias, de cuentos. Esas poesías también, como buscar otra narrativa, ¿no? De compartir. Para mí eso fue lo más importante e interesante. Todo ha sido importante, pero también como que cada momento y cada... Thank you very much. We have to stop and look for ourselves and do that meditation with nature, also give ourselves care to our body. The other day when I felt a little saturated, no, I have to stop, I stopped, I closed everything and went and looked for someone who could give me a massage. And that is also part of these learnings that this meeting of the church left me. And that also Thank you very much. As well as Ana, Elena tells us that contributing from the philanthropic sector to the work done by
SPEAKER_06IGLY will improve the quality of life of more feminist activists. I
SPEAKER_03have realized that many Many times people or donors, many times they are for specific issues and to solve a difficult issue, like the issue of police violence, the issue of human rights violations and all that. But when we go to projects that have to do with self-care, with the personal and economic development of the populations that live in these violences, there are not many contributions. para talleres, en cuanto a derechos humanos, pero no hay para el tema de ese autocuidado, para que las personas puedan poner un emprendimiento y todas esas cosas. Entonces, a través de ese encuentro me motiva y también invito a todo aquel que cree en esto, que tiene idea o busca la forma de poder apoyar acciones e iniciativas, que sean también tomadas en cuenta estas experiencias que is Hacer ejercicio de estos talleres de incidencia, que son más fuertes, que son más para la lucha, para esto, pero que también puedan incidir en todo este tema del autocuidado, sobre todo en el tema de la salud mental, de las personas defensoras de derechos humanos, que son temas que actualmente están siendo muy atacados. En el encuentro con IGRI entendíamos y veíamos cómo en América Latina y todos los países que hacemos vida social que luchamos. Muchas de las compañeras han tenido que salir de su país, que irse luego de varias luchas. Hemos visto como un retroceso hacia el progresismo en nuestra región y esto hace como que el cuerpo y todas esas luchas haya como un sentimiento de cansancio porque en vez de mejorar pues va empeorando. Entonces necesitamos también tener that strength, that resistance to fight all this that affects us, because in the end we can't take a plane and leave and say everything is fine, because in the end it is our reality, it is our body, it is our life, it is our community that is in danger.
SPEAKER_07We live connected You already know
SPEAKER_05Después de este ameno diálogo caribeño, nos vamos hasta Paraguay, en América del Sur, un país en el cual sus habitantes resisten mediante el guaraní. Es un territorio lleno de fresas, o también se les conoce como frutillas, y donde encontré a Cori nuevamente, una compañera que trabaja en Conamuri, una organización de mujeres indígenas que luchan por mantener a la vida en el centro, no solo de ellas mismas, sino también de mujeres campesinas y las de sus hijos durante el mes de septiembre con y yo nos encontramos en luque una ciudad tranquila very quiet for me, especially after coming from a cosmopolitan and a little noisy city like Panama. In Luque we were able to exchange experiences of self-care, group reflection, and above all, make it possible for this podcast to come out. During our interaction in Luque, Paraguay, we had to overcome different obstacles. For example, at that time, the Amazon jungle and countries like Uruguay, Paraguay, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil were facing voracious forest fires caused and that affected our respiratory condition.
SPEAKER_06The forest fires that were coming from the Amazon, Peru, Bolivia, it's like a smoke corridor that reaches Paraguay and passes through Argentina is the problem the problem is who turns on that fire Because fire is irresponsible. The responsible of these fires or the responsible of these fires are people who have specific interests that once those places are burned, they want to use it in a different way, either for some agribusiness business or some extractivist business, which in reality benefits very few people and affects the majority. For example, now in Paraguay, started burning more or less on Saturday a hill called Chubureca in the Paraguayan Chaco and it is the home of the last non-contacted indigenous people in Paraguay and now they burned about 165,000 hectares so we are also talking about how there is an excessive economic interest that does not care to end life not only of people, but also of animals and biodiversity, in a hill that was historically taken care of by these non-contacted indigenous people, which is the first time that this hill
SPEAKER_05is burned in this way. Returning to the month of March, when IGLI occurred, Connie tells us how her entry to this summer institute happened.
SPEAKER_06It surprised me, because I usually go to many activities, and they are always very busy and very heavy. So the program surprised me a lot and I came from a very tired year, I had a very tired body, I got sick almost every month. So from that program I saw a double opportunity when I took the program. one, to meet feminist researchers, to know other experiences of feminist women, and also the opportunity of rest, of a rest that my body was already demanding and that
SPEAKER_05I was not giving it. But it is time to delve into what was the journey by Connie to get to Mexico and meet us.
SPEAKER_06Since I entered Konamuri, I have always had tasks to relate to feminists, On a national and international level. And here in Paraguay, for example, specifically with organizations that are only of women, mixed collectives or self-invited girls. And since 2017 we have organized the national marches of the 8M25N. So I'm always close to the construction of popular feminism, of an emancipatory feminism. So maybe that profile... is the one that could have caught Igli's attention and that maybe they thought it was a space where I could contribute but also a necessary space for me and the truth is that yes because as I already told you I am aware that I have a very tired body because of the different responsibilities I have and because in addition to the responsibility of militancy I work in other things as a journalist and as a communicator sometimes as a translator from Guaraní to Spanish or from Spanish to Guaraní so I'm always with a very busy schedule and I don't allow myself to rest For me, IGLI marks a before and after, because being there led me to make decisions. For example, leaving a job that I liked a lot, but that I had already learned everything I had to learn there and I needed to do other new things. So IGLI was also defining in that
SPEAKER_05sense for me. There are always tools to win over tiredness and cling to life. That is why Connie highlights it below.
SPEAKER_06Lo que trato de hacer es, por ejemplo, darme un día de la semana para no hacer nada, para descansar. Y descansar en el sentido de hacer lo que yo tenga ganas de hacer, o ver series, o escuchar música, hacer cosas que me desconecten de las preocupaciones y las angustias diarias. of living in a macho and patriarchal society. Because something that a community feminist from Guatemala, Lorena Cagnales, used to say a lot is that patriarchy and capitalism, once women become aware of it, make us live permanently distressed. But what we have to learn is to heal and not to lose the joy. So those two elements are things that I found very strong and I already heard about self-care before, but in a theoretical way. And I remember perfectly that it was in a meeting in Bolivia with an urgent fund for Latin America and they gave us a notebook that said this, put life and self-care in the center. and it was the image of women smiling and happy. But I realized that that stayed in theory. So when I got to IGLY, I realized that this is what is talked about when it comes to self-care. Because I feel that still, in most feminist spaces, we talk about self-care, but theoretically. We talk about what we want, what we dream, what we think it should be, but we don't take it to practice and IGLI was the material concretion of how it is to exercise self-care in practice and of that right that we have to rest our mind, our body to enjoy a sentir el placer de bañarse en una piscina, de que te den un masaje, de mirar, de sentir, de escuchar la naturaleza, porque el lugar donde estábamos tenía mucho de eso, y que te ayuda también a conectarte, porque bueno, yo, mi raíz es campesina, entonces para mí, the nature and the earth connects me with my identity and my roots. To be able to share the experience that I had there and to rethink and think what we can do so that more colleagues can become aware of this and can look for moments of care and self-care as a right.
SPEAKER_05Sharing was a common denominator for all participants, so Connie highlights each experience lived.
SPEAKER_06To have that moment to talk and to listen and to share, to be able to hug, to be able to look at each other, to be able to smile together, to be able to cry together. I really like the experiences of several colleagues. In Gracia, for example, who is an indigenous colleague from Guatemala, who is a leader, who confronts machismo and patriarchy in her territory. I liked her a lot. I also liked Luz Beidy a lot. And the Colombian friend, the youngest. I don't remember her name now. Flana, Flavia. and all her work in Peru to have a house for trans people, who are the most discriminated people within the LGBTQI community, because they are the most rejected when it comes to expressing their gender identity or gender expression. So the violence is very strong. And to hear that there is a defense network in Central America was super interesting to me, with what Ale was talking about, Morena's experience, everything that has to do with the efforts to make this Igli space, to meet Marie, Vantika, Julia, Yanis, Carly. and see how they are making a very big effort to generate a space that is real, that space that is not theoretical. Through
SPEAKER_05his pleasant dialogue, Connie commemorates the high range of cultural experiences that we live in Tepoztlán.
SPEAKER_06What I take with me is that, to take that awareness of the right to self-care, to care, of the importance of meeting, meeting again, listening, talking and feeling that it is a space where you can be safe. And that is also very important, that it is a safe space where you can talk about what you need without anyone questioning you, without anyone judging you, but at the same time feel that in every story we heard we could identify ourselves in some
SPEAKER_05way. Let's listen to Connie's final message to the audience. To be well, to focus on life and continue after visiting Tepoztlán.
SPEAKER_06Going to Tepoztlán, to a magical little town, to a place where you breathe nature, makes me feel good because it connects me with going to the countryside. Y yo de verdad que sentí en esos días que todo mi cuerpo se relajó, mi cabeza también. Yo por ejemplo tengo un problema en la columna. Tengo un problema en la columna y siento mucho dolor, y más cuando viajo. Entonces generalmente tomo medicamentos para el dolor. Pero me di cuenta que esos días no necesité tomar ningún medicamento. Entonces me di cuenta ahí también que... que eso te da también entender cómo el cuerpo habla, el cuerpo expresa lo que siente.
SPEAKER_05IGLY es una experiencia que nos ayuda a sanar, pero también a conectar a nivel cultural. Por ello, a continuación, Connie destaca la importancia de la realización de este encuentro anual, del cual estamos muy agradecidas.
SPEAKER_06Y que exista esta experiencia y que otras personas puedan escuchar puede llevar a que más personas busquen la forma de multiplicar esta experiencia. Entonces, es necesario, es muy necesario porque la mayoría de las activistas y militantes feministas no tienen tiempo de descanso y siempre estamos como con muchas cosas porque todo es urgente, todo es para ayer por nuestros contextos en América y siempre estamos preocupadas. Entonces, I think Igli is a bet, a bet to build new ways of relating to each other, new ways of understanding how we can take
SPEAKER_02care of each other. You can't buy the wind, you can't buy the sun
SPEAKER_05From Luque, Paraguay, Connie and I say goodbye. Between calls and resistance. But we'll be back in the next episode to heal in community.
SPEAKER_02You can't buy the wind. You can't buy the sun. You can't buy...
SPEAKER_00or online at theinclusivegloballeadershipinitiative.org or you can find us on Instagram at whattheworldwillbe. I'm Marie Berry, and I'm grateful to you for listening.
