Episode 3: Exploring Art, Love, and Polyamory with Yanith and Simón

Have you ever imagined the power of art and love in creating a haven for those who feel marginalized? Join us as we take a deep dive into a compelling conversation with Simón Castaño and Yanith Cristancho Segura, the founders of Pósa suto. This extraordinary duo has cultivated a unique space for black, trans, queer, and gender-expansive people in Cali, Colombia, using art as an expression of beauty amidst rampant violence.

Expressing love freely and openly can be a daunting task, but imagine navigating the even more complex waters of polyamory. Simón and Yanith share their journey of love, from understanding their feelings to revolutionizing the dynamics of their relationships. Learn how polyamory, for them, isn't just about maintaining multiple relationships, but about challenging traditional power dynamics and embracing the freedom to love in a liberating way. The power of understanding, recognizing oneself in others, and the transformative nature of living fully are key themes of this episode. Tune in and be inspired by a conversation that transcends the ordinary and delves into the extraordinary.

Chapters

• 0:03 Building a Free and Just World
• 20:12 Navigating Non-Monogamous Commitment and Evolution
• 25:49 Love, Activism, and Polyamory
• 36:54 Creating Safe Spaces for Marginalized Communities
• 47:08 The Power of Healing and Community
• 59:17 Embracing Collective Healing and Living Fully

Transcript

Marie Berry: 0:03

Music playing

Marie Berry: Welcome to what the World Will Become a podcast about the humans who dedicate their lives to building a more free and just world. My name is Marie Berry. I'm a feminist researcher and writer, and I've spent the better part of the past 20 years researching and thinking about how women experience war and its aftermath. I've done research in places like Rwanda, bosnia, kenya, nepal and Colombia, and I've interviewed hundreds of women whose lives have been shaped by violence. Along the way, I have been repeatedly struck by two simultaneous truths the first is that violence is devastating, leaving those who survive it with trauma and grief that can last for years and even generations. But the second is that even in the most bleak and impossible of situations, there is often a great beauty, a way that those who suffer from violence find love, joy and resilience that can creatively forge new paths forward, paths that offer us profound hope and possibility for building a more just and free world. Music playing. On this episode you'll hear my conversation with two remarkable humans from Colombia.  Simón  Castaño is a trans-free spirit, afro-indigenous person from Cartagena, on the Caribbean coast of Colombia.  Simón , who uses he-they pronouns, is a self-described arduvist, polyamorous person and a strong defender of life and freedom in all forms for queer trans people. Also on the podcast today is Yanith Cristancho Segura, who also goes by Naki. Yanith is a black, queer, polyamorous person from Kibdo Choco, colombia. Yanith believes in art, collectiveness and ancestral spirituality as the most magical, beautiful tools to transform and change history. They are an educator with a master's degree in Afro-Latino and Caribbean studies from the Latin American Council on Social Sciences. Together, yanith and  Simón  created Pósa suto, a space for black, trans, queer, gender expansive people in Cali, colombia, where black spirituality, art and collectivity are at the center of all of their work and interests. I met both Yanith and  Simón  at Igley Summer Institutes in 2019 and 2022, respectively. I'm really excited for you to hear our conversation, which touches on everything from polyamory as an anti-colonial activist project to art as an expression of beauty amidst great violence. Yanith and  Simón  were together when we recorded this episode and in the background of their audio you can hear some sounds from a very vibrant street in Cali, along with some roofs from what I'm sure was a very cute dog

hi everyone. Simón can you tell us about your background and your own work?

Simón Castaño: 3:02

I am a, I would say, free spirit person, which is also known as being non-binary or gender queer, or gender non-conforming, or gender fluid and all of these terms. Lately I decided to stop calling myself non-binary, because it's like naming myself from, I mean, it means like my starting point will be what's the standard, what's the norm. So I am a non-binary, non cisgender person and it's like that's not how I want to refer to myself. So I stopped calling myself non-binary and started calling myself free spirit or just a person who doesn't really believe in gender. I am from Cartagena, colombia, so I'm a Caribbean person, which I think, I mean it can tell a lot about myself in the ways that I relate to the world. I love art and how art allows me to express myself and connect to others, and it's something I have been experiencing and kind of like, yeah, just trying for the sake of the work we do with Pósa suto, I'm also a co-founder. We both created this space and then one of our main goals was to put art in the center of queer black people so it could help us express and connect with each other, and on that quest I started, like using art myself and it opened up a whole new world for me, for us, for all of us involved with Pósa suto, and it has brought the possibility for me to realize that I can make music that helps me and that helps other people. I can write poems. I can encourage people to do stuff through my art as well, and it has helped me a lot with believing in myself and my power and also my ability to express and to heal through that expression. So that's one of the things. I'm also studying NLP with Yanid and it's been also such a ride because it gets intense. You go there for a class and end up talking about the way you were born and how you have these wounds from the moment you were born and how that makes you the person you are right now and how that can help you understand the other person's wound and how to understand and treat the other person, taking into account those things that are invisible but are there. So it's been interesting, very interesting. I'm also a non-monogamous person and it's also been a great part of who I am and how we do what we do and how I do what I do, how I move around the world, because it's been for me like the greatest school of life, basically Like the way I relate to people, the way we handle our relationship, for example, is something that has brought up so many past wounds, so many questions and stuff that have been, like man, this way you're feeling is because you were hurt in the past. So this way you're feeling is because this and that and is this how you want to keep on relating to other people. You want to work on this. Are you really up for the challenge yet? Okay, once you say yes, there's no going back, it's like you're going all the way, deep down and it's like, okay, we're in this and it has brought a lot of how to say this? Transmutation, I would say. And with that comes the death of the past self and then the rebirth of the new self, and it's been painful and it's been beautiful. So it's a big part of who I am today and how that also impacts the work we do with Posasudo as well.

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 6:25

My name is Yanith or Naki. You can tell me Naki also, my pronouns are they them. I'm from Kibdo Choco and now I'm living in Cali and co-founder of Pósa suto. which is a space that we created in order to offer to black, queer, trans, non-binary and queer people to have a safe space in which they can hear, hear and to art through also spirituality, through the collective conspiracy. And, yeah, that's like the main part of what I'm doing right now, but I'm also studying numerology, pythagorean numerology and neuro-linguistic programming with  Simón , because I believe that we can understand each other's souls in other ways. I think that the main reason that many things don't work in the world is because we don't understand each other. We are used to focus on problems, focus on the mistakes of people and of ourselves, and I think that with numerology, for example, we can see each other with the eyes of love and understanding and also compassion, because we can see and understand why people are like they are and also why I am like the way I am and how to relate each other. By knowing that I'm also polyamory, I have a relationship with  Simón  and also with another person, and I believe that we can change our perception of love, of relationships and the way that we interact with each other by building that perception of freedom and also compassion, understanding and compassion.

Marie Berry: 5:53

Well, thank you so much, Yanith. This is so beautiful, and I love how you just began by telling us the orienting values that you have in your life and some of these ways in which you are engaged in the world and ways that are bringing more compassion and more love and more understanding. I think that's so important. 

Marie Berry: 11:02

Will you tell us more about that journey to polyamory and to non-monogamy? Like, where did you make that decision to begin? And I mean entering into that work which you just described, that difficult work of figuring out sort of who you are and how you connect with other people and how you walk through the world in that way? That's a good question, a really good question you want to start.

Simón Castaño: 11:33

I'm going to tell you how it has been for me. I was a monogamous person. And you thought you were.

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 11:44

You thought you were.

Simón Castaño: 11:45

Yeah, I thought I was very, and when I knew  Simón, he came with an idea of an open relationship. As soon as we started the relationship, it was like an intense thing over the other or over a more intense thing, and more and more and more and more. I think like we've been on this for more than four years, but I feel like we've been together like ten years. For ten years because it's has been really really intense, really really like I don't know how to say like we break ourselves over and over and over and we rebuild ourselves over and over and reinvent everything. So it has been really intense For me. It was like at the, at the beginning, it was like, okay, I'm going to work on myself, on my jealousy, on my especially my jealousy, in order to accept and respect the freedom of of  Simón e. Yes, that's what that was like, my, my approach at the beginning. But then our I, I don't know we we had like a like a trouble a trouble like a three-way relationship. Yes, with a person who was the girlfriend of  Simón e and then she came to be our, our girlfriend. So I I can say that experience was like the the most difficult, the most complex, the like the, the main experience that made me change all of my, my point of view about this relationship and about the way that I want to to relate with other people. So from then to now, I was like changing my point of view and thinking that I deserve to open myself to and to have experiences with other people and also to fall in love with other people. That was like the most important challenge for me and I am, I'm so happy, I'm so proud of myself to, to take it and and to to do it with all the fears, all the yes, like fear, doubts, insecurities, but I'm doing it and and it feels really beautiful, wonderful and powerful. I feel really powerful because I I could understand that I came love more than one people that I had much love to, to, to share and and and also that I want to receive, receive more love and and in that way I can learn to love unconditionally to each one of the people that I love. So it has been really beautiful. I can say now, at this time, at this moment, that I am a polyamory person, that I believe in radical, radical healing to love yes, as, as  Simón e said, for me, this experience in programming took me that and confronted me to many traumas, many bombs, many things that I wasn't aware that I had and that I'm working on it and to heal myself and to help other people to heal and to really build something bigger together.

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 16:31

So I can say that for now it's been chaos and paradise, I mean chaos and paradise.

Marie Berry: 16:39

Yeah, I think I started wondering about this.

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 16:43

Many, many years ago I had some relationships where we kind of like, had this type of like open dynamic, but it was it wasn't this, I mean it was. It was like I don't know, like the, the whole learning process. We're still on a learning journey, but those previous relationships were like trying, you know, like a trial, to see how it worked, how it went. I can, I cannot say I really I was really living polyamory per se, but non monogamy, let's say so. I have other relationships where we had like openness to sharing with other people only sexually, or sharing with other people or having the possibility to just chat with other people and flirt with other people, and we had like the consciousness that there was other people in the world and that we were able to. I mean, the fact that you were in a relationship was not limiting your attraction or your desire to connect with other people or your, your attraction to other people. That was it for me until that point and I'm talking about, I don't know, over 10 years ago. It was like, on the first relationship I had, this type of interaction was like that. But then I met people who were like publicly and openly polyamorous and they were like, yes, they had this, I don't know advocates for polyamory, for polyamory. And so we became friends and we started talking about it. I was like I don't know. I was like very intrigued, curious and inspired by them and I was like, okay, this is this, wow, this is possible, this is. I can see these people. They have a relationship for over 20 years and they're poly and they're wow, this is like wow, it's possible, you know, and so this is. They were this. They're a Cuban hip hop feminist group that is called Cruz da Coenzi, so they are known for this also, you know, they're under songs and everything. They were like advocates for polyamory. And so we became friends. We started talking. I was like, how does it work? Blah, blah, blah, and just talking to them and and seeing an actual relationship that was working, living in polyamory to me that was mind blowing. It was okay, this is, this is something you can do. And so my previous relationship to the one I have with Yanith right now, I could say I don't know, we were trying this type of like, yeah, open relationship and all that, but then, well, it ended and all that. And so when we met Yanith and I, when we first said, okay, we, we want to be together. It was like, okay, but this is not going to be an exclusive relationship like we know. Monagamese know what we're gonna do, as Yanith already mentioned. They said, yes, okay, let's do it. And so we started doing it, like just from our guts, it was just like, okay, this is how it feels, so let's go and do we have any agreement or agreements or limits or or or anything, boundaries or what? And it was like now it's this and that will go with the flow. And so, of course, we made every single mistake there was to be to me to be made. With every single mistake we went through all of them, all of them, and we're we know now, we didn't make we didn't make those mistakes in order to hurt each other, but in order in order to express each other was that we were just trying to figure out how to live through this, how to do it like how to I don't know allow ourselves to feel or experience what we were feeling. And so, of course, in that process, we hurt each other or other people, because the fact that you're saying, yeah, we're going to have a non monogamous relationship and from now on, let's let's say we're polyamorous because that's what we want to be, this is how we want to relate to each other. It doesn't mean that automatically all the 30 previous years that you had in your background of jealousy, of monogamy, of possessiveness, I mean all of that it doesn't go away just because you say, okay, I'm polyamorous, you know so we were trying to have this relationship from a place of abundance and and love and freedom, with without the tools. You know we were doing this with the tools that we had when we were we were in monogamous relationships. Of course, those tools didn't work and we learned that the hard way was like okay, let's go this way, boom, we crashed. Okay, let's go this way, boom, we crashed. And so on and so forth. And so, wow, I mean, same is been over four years is a lot, because for real it's been, it's been very intense and it's been like making a lot of mistakes, but that the point we are today is like it's been after a lot of hard work, a lot of inner work, a lot of I don't know many hours of complex and awkward conversations between us and other people we have relationships with, and also that moment when that, when everything changed was the moment where we understood we were talking about love and not just relationships. You know, the moment when we actually fell in love with other people, when we fell in love outside this relationship, boom, that changed us, both of us right, because it was like we had relationships and it was all good, but we were not like feeling this, I love you with my heart, like we were feeling with each other. You know that, that commitment, exactly that commitment, we have cool relationships. We were not quite there and the minute we reach that, I can tell you it changed. It changed us and our relationship, of course, and so that has made that this relationship is constantly changing and relocating and evolving and double checking hey, I was still that couple. I was still in that relationship because this still worked for us. I was still that people we were before. Do we like this we are now? Do these two person want to still be in a relationship? If the answer is yes, what type of relationship do we want? I mean, it's a lot of work and I think it's something most people really don't understand about really this type of relationships, because they'll be like it's lack of commitment and that's why they need to have multiple partners and it's like no, it's commit is an excessive net of commitment, because we really need to commit to many people and be as careful as possible and as conscious as possible of with everyone. You know of every person and every person's needs, especially our needs. So I mean it's a lot, it's a big journey.

Simón Castaño: 24:32

I think like the thing that I least care about is about the term you know the title of, in which I fit in or we fit in, but I like to say that I am for glamorous because for me is to really love more than one people and all that embrace, for example, to having serious relationships with different people, having commitment, having like dreams together or like projects or like intentions to keep on evolving or keep on, yes, evolving each one of the relationships and also is to question, for myself, is being like questioning the hierarchy relationships and because I want to feel free with everyone, to love everyone the way that I love.

Marie Berry: 25:49

So I wanted to ask you both about where your, where. So where does where does? Where does your commitment to polyamory fit within your broader activism and your broader work, and is it motivated? What is? You know, and I see so much of what you just described. As you know, a really beautiful journey and path to coming to that place, with each other and with yourselves and with other relationships, and I'm curious how it fits into you know, your community and your and your work with Pósa suto and your other initiatives.

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 26:30

So I don't know. You said before the where the inspiration for the name of the podcast came from, right, and you said what the world will become already exists in, in tiny portions of people who are doing stuff against the system, doing things that go, that fall out of the norm, and and all of that. I think being polyamorous and the work we do is part of that, is one of the things that the world will become. That is already happening somehow in our relationship, in our home, in our collectiveness, in our community, and to me is like I would say now, monogamy has taught me a lot about equity and horizontality and how to handle a space in a way that everyone's voice is as important, in a space that everyone's voice is heard, everyone can not only give their opinion but, you know, be taken into account, and that their lives and existence is celebrated, because usually you know when you're handling an organization, a collectiveness, whatever is like like in our case is like. I feel like the way our relationships see how we say with our relationship has been changing and evolving and blah, blah, blah, and so has been post-assault in a way, because at the very beginning, it was just us who started. We had an idea, we started this project and so we were running everything right and then more people starting joining post-assault but we kept on running everything and we were like overload with a lot of work. And then, at the same time, our relationship was like us, but we had some relationships and some partners, but it wasn't quite deep because our fears, our everything was stopping us from go deeper in those relationships. You know which I just want to for the record doesn't mean that those relationships were not meaningful or important to us. They were so meaningful and so important that they took us to change ourselves and our relationship, even though those relationships ended. You know, I'm just saying we didn't take those relationships to a deeper level because we were so afraid, so afraid that we couldn't do that. But that doesn't mean those relationships were not meaningful. I just wanted to say that. And so, as our relationship was changing, so was post-assault, because it was like for us we were kind of like de-escalating, this type of like hierarchy, as Naki was saying before, in which we were like we never said that, we never said we are the main relationship, we are going to be this and that is possible. We never said it. But the way we were handling ourselves and the relationship. That's what we were doing until we realized oh man, we have a hierarchical relationship, so how do we change that? And the same happened with post assault. It was okay, we're being too. This is not being horizontal in the way that we lead everything, and also that has taken us to an overload of work and all that. So everything started being more horizontal in both our relationships, our lives, in post-assault. So I think that parallel of both things has I don't know it's pretty accurate, I would say, because both things have been changing, like at the same time, I would say, and also the fact that, for me, understanding that I have the ability to love multiple people and also seeing Naki loving other people, is teaching me a lot. So that also gives me, like an awareness of my ability to love, to love. So now I'm not concerned only about people who are part of post-assault, but how can we reach other people who are in need of what we're doing, even though they're not part of post-assault? Because everyone needs something and if we have tools and we have whatever we have, we can share it. How can we reach more people? And I have come to that realization by realizing our ability to love expansively and unconditionally and take that into the work we're doing as well. So it's like I wanna, I want post-assault to be able to help everybody, like everyone needs. So how do we? Sometimes I need to like calm down and you know and be like okay, hold on, like let's not, you know, one thing at a time. let's take it slow, step by step, you know, because it can be very overwhelming at times.

Simón Castaño: 31:56

Sure, yeah, I can say that for me it's like I say that the personality is political. So for me everything is correlated, because I think, or I realize that many reasons, like the main reason that black queer people, which are the people that we work and that we are, the main reason for them to not feeling worthy of many things is, you know, besides structural racism, transphobic patriarchy, is the toxic imaginary that we have of love. Yeah, because we learn to hate ourselves and also to hate other people like us, to hate other black people, to hate black women, to hate other people because it's like it's what the system wants us to believe in order to not be aware of our power and our value. So I believe that if we change first, if we identify that toxic conception of love that we have, and that it's not only the perception that we have and with which we raised, but also the perception of our ancestors yes, is like passing by generations and generations and we have to identify that and to really take the the risks to change it. And it's like a huge challenge, the hugest I can say. But as soon as you start to do it, you can feel and see and perceive the changes in your life, the changes in the way you see other people, the changes that people see you, and also you can see the way that the universe flows on that If you flow in a perception of hate, of lacking, lacking, of like you don't deserve anything good, you don't deserve anything good. You must only serve, you must only to work hard during your whole life and you can never reach like this, the heaven, as the church tell us for centuries. If you change that, you can see how the universe really loves you. You know it despises the, the, the, the, the it is that you believe on. You know it really changed everything and I can say it. But my experience, I can see how our experience, not only with Posazuto but also with Polyamorous Polyamory that are like intricate, educated, has inspired other people, not only the people that we relate, that we have relationships to, but also our, our families, our partners of the collective and everyone. So, yeah, I think the love is, is the way to change the world and, and talking specifically about black queer people, I think that love is the radical tool or weapon that we have to to change our realities, despite the system and the oppression system that oppresses us.

Marie Berry: 36:39

Totally totally, Absolutely. Will you tell us that was beautiful? Will you tell us about? I want to hear about Posazuto. Can you tell us about what Posazuto is and what inspired you to create it?

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 36:54

Well, we, we were living in Bogotá when we first started. As Naki said at the beginning,  Pósa suto I mean Bogotá is the world is very racist and wide centered, but Bogotá can be a pain. So it was hard to be black and queer in a city like that, and most of the time we had this feeling that we had sometimes like to choose whether to hang out at the black spaces and be the weirdo because you were, you know, queer, or hang out at the queer spaces and be the weirdo because you were black and so be fetishized and ex-sodicized and objectified and all of the things we know that happen towards us, towards our bodies and stuff. And so it was very annoying, to be honest. It was very, very like a, like a yeah, like a non-space, you know, like a non-space. We were living in a non-space, like in a limbo or something, and so we said you know what? What we need to do is have our own space. We need to create a place that is specifically for people like us, people who are black and queer, and so we're going to have a radically Afro-centered space and, whatever people say, whoever wants to help us and fund us because we have no money welcome, and let's see how it goes. So we wrote a project, the proposal, and started applying to different funds and stuff. See who would believe in what we wanted to do and who would say for whatever reasons hey, you know, bunch of queer black people there. You have some money so you can do what you want to do. So, thanks to, the ancestors of people did that and so we had the funds that we started, we rented a space and we started working with Pósa suto. At the very beginning, we wanted to center on art as a way of expression and healing, and that's basically what we were doing. So we created a space that we carry until today, which is called Maricrofono, because we are Maricas, which basically means queers. So Marica and microfono and we merged it and it's Maricrofono. It's like a queer phone, something like that. Microphone, microphone, oh, something like that, something like that. I love it it's better in Spanish so it's called Maricrofono. We have the Maricrofono, which is basically open mic sessions in which we encourage people to express themselves through arts of any sorts. So we started that space. We still have that space today. We carry one month. So we have one virtually and people from all over the world get in and share and it's nice because it's a space where only black people can share the microphone. White people can be there as audience and that's it. And many white people have come to us to be like hey, I have something to share and I would love to, because this is to honor black people. And now, honor black people on white spaces. Go on, all black people on all white spaces. Go and honor black people there, not here. We're honoring ourselves. You can sit here and listen and hear to what we have to say and learn for free, but you're not speaking. You can speak every night. This is our night once a month, so we still have that space. We also started back in Bogota with a school because we're both teachers and I don't think we would have had a place built, a space, without having some teaching because we're teachers and so we really believe that I mean we have the possibility to heal and change our generation and previous generations through love. But also we need to work with the next generation, not only by our own healing, but also through direct and specific tools that we share with them, the tools that we're learning, because we know how hard it is, because we've been them, we've been those kids and so we're just trying, I guess, to be the adults we needed as kids for those kids. So it's just sharing other possibilities because we know what type of education and information they're receiving from their families, through society, through the media, through their pairs, and so for us it's like listen, yeah, you're getting all that, but take a look at this and choose and see for yourself that there are other possibilities. See how we're doing it. See that there are other people like you who are black and can be queer. And see there are other people like you who had dreams as a little black boy and were able to fulfill those dreams or were able to get some tools to see that the only possibility that you have in back when you're in the hood, and the only possibility that you have is to turn to drugs or dealing, because that's what they're giving you, that's what they're putting in your hands. See how there are other possibilities that you have to become who you want to be, and the main tool to that is love and mainly you learning to love yourself. So you know you have the power and you can gain the tools to become who you are and know what the word is telling you that you're supposed to be. So we started that school. We still have that school today. We have an in Cali. We work with kids from eight to 17. And so we do that.

Simón Castaño: 43:13

Yeah, yeah, besides that, we have, like a main, a area of our work which is focused on healing. Yes, and it's focused on healing through black spirituality, and that's why, also, we have this, a black center approach, because, of course, we don't want to see for chloro I don't know if you understand the word, for chloro is our, our ancestral culture or wisdom, and we have, we want to, like, offer our community and also ourselves to a safe space where we can talk each other, where we can connect with our ancestors, with our wisdom, with our traumas. Like that are also common traumas because, yeah, because we are black and we are queer, and we are like impoverished, impoverished, impoverished, impoverished, impoverished, impoverished, impoverished.

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 44:45

Impoverished, impoverished, impoverished.

Marie Berry: 44:48

Impoverished, impoverished, impoverished.

Simón Castaño: 44:50

Yeah, impoverished. So we have like common traumas, common heart realities that we want to to heal, because we know we we have many things, many beautiful things to offer to the world, but but we have to heal. So I think that idea started because  Simón e and I realized that we have many things to heal and we we realized that other people like us have the same needs. So we work on that and and we also work on healing of the, of children of the school, and, yeah, I can say that, what else to say? I think that Posa Soto has become like my I don't know, like my, our precious, our precious because it's like the realization of our dreams, our, the things that we want to transform in in the community and in ourselves that we represent, on that project with other people and also, as  Simón e said before, the people that are like involving in Posa Soto brings their own dreams too. So it's really beautiful the way that we can we have many dreams in common and also we can work on the dreams of each one of us collectively to like to finally build a better world for black people, for for black people, and and to heal, to heal and to to heal and to to be aware that we can be loved in a beautiful way and that we can love other people in a in a safe way.

Yanith Cristancho Segura: 47:08

Yeah, and also like if you, if you, were able to have like a sneak peek of one of our meetings. It's so Cornish we're, I Swear. It's like we're all Como cool, see, cuz he's like we're all all the time we're just Expressing how much we love each other, how much we love the space, how much the space means for us. It's like, oh, I love you. Someone shares an idea and he's all. You're so brilliant, that's such a wonderful idea. And it's also a space where we can be honest and open and direct to each other and and tell people hey, this is, this is not cool. You know you're doing this and and what do you need? What do you need so you can deal with this? Because it's hard, you know. So I think it's become a family. You know it's become a very we always talk about this functional families, and I think this is a very functional family because we are. We are there because we care, we are there because we want to with those. We are there because we want to, we're committed to do the job that needs to be done and so, in that sense, is something that really works. And and we're doing way more than directing a school and working with the 16 people who are part of the collective, and those are the people that we directly Impact, and then 20 or 30 kids of the school and those and no, it goes way beyond that, because what we're doing here goes and impacts each of Our families, so it's 16 families plus the families of the kids, but everyone who comes and Participates in the healing sessions. So I really feel right now, believe that we, at this point, we are Changing the world. We are changing our world, we are changing our Community and so if we start by changing what, what we have here close, what was directly related to us, that will create an impact and that will spread. This culture of love is the answer to many other places.

Marie Berry: 49:26

I Think that's so beautiful and I I absolutely can Imagine what you mean that the reverberations of this Collective and this initiative and this program go so far beyond the immediate people in the room. It strikes me that that's that's really how change happens, and so often the most important work happens kind of in small spaces. But it's a, it's a fact is so much broader.