What the World Will Become
Welcome to What the World Will Become, a podcast about the humans who dedicate their lives to building a more free and just world. Over the course of this season, you’ll hear from women-identified and gender non-conforming activists from around the world who are carving out spaces for creative resistance and new possibilities in the context of profound difficulty.
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What the World Will Become
Episode 5: The Rise of Activism in the Face of Autocracy with Carolina Barrero
Prepare for a powerful journey as we sit down with Carolina Barrero, the courageous Cuban human rights and democracy activist. Carolina takes us on an emotionally charged journey through the Cuban protest movement of 2021, revealing the role of art and storytelling in challenging the oppressive regime. As we unravel her gripping personal story of house arrest and defiance, you'll gain an exclusive look into the bravery of artists who dared to expose the corruption and decay of the Cuban government.
Carolina opens up about her experiences as an exile and the profound impact it has had on her understanding of global activism. She brings to light the importance of alliance and art in dismantling autocratic regimes and their attempts to divide movements for change. Her insights on global solidarity and its role in sparking protests are truly inspiring. Join us in this exciting episode as we explore the power of shared activism, art, and the collective fight for a free world.
You can find the full, live event with Carolina here.
Music playing Welcome to what the World Will Become, a podcast about the humans who dedicate their lives to building a more free and just world. My name is Marie Berry. I'm a feminist researcher and writer, and I've spent the better part of the past 20 years researching and thinking about how women experience war and its aftermath. I've done research in places like Rwanda, Bosnia, Kenya, Nepal and Colombia, and I've interviewed hundreds of women whose lives have been shaped by violence. Along the way, I have been repeatedly struck by two simultaneous truths the first is that violence is devastating, leaving those who survive it with trauma and grief that can last for years and even generations. But the second is that, even in the most bleak and impossible of situations, there is often a great beauty, a way that those who suffer from violence find love, joy and resilience that can creatively forge new paths forward, paths that offer us profound hope and possibility for building a more just and free world. Music playing Welcome to this episode of what the World Will Become, which features Carolina Barrero.
Marie Berry:Carolina is a Cuban human rights and democracy activist dedicated to bringing about the end of violence and authoritarianism in her country. She took part in the protest movement that challenged Cuba's regime in 2021 as a member of the 27N and Sen Isidro movement. After that, she was detained, prosecuted and arrested until she was forced into exile in February 2022. In summer 2022, Carolina came to Colorado as part of the IGLI Summer Institute. Since, she has been invited as a speaker at events such as the Oslo Freedom Forum, the Human Rights Watch annual council and the World Liberty Congress. From exile, she has continued her tireless advocacy for freedom in Cuba and has supported activists inside the island nation. She is also an author and has written for magazines and newspapers such as Artichoke, the Art Newspaper and Hypermedia Magazine.
Marie Berry:I sat down with Carolina in person in a public forum to record this episode in Denver, Colorado, in May 2023. Carolina was in Colorado for several weeks, serving as a practitioner in residence as part of the IGLI initiative at the Corbell School at the University of Denver. You were joined by more than 120 people in the audience, and so what you are about to hear is a live conversation. I hope you enjoy.
Carolina Barrero:Allow me to begin by telling you a personal story I haven't yet shared in public. During my time in house arrest in Havana, a state security agent known as Mario came to see me. At that time I was constantly monitored by guards outside my house 24 hours four police officers, a state security agent and the military forces known as Boinas Rojas. All my communications were inter-been. They listened and watched almost every single one of my steps. I was listening now in silence to Mario and what he came to say. He expressed his concerns about the longest house arrest how, the inconvenience for the neighborhood's peace, the amount of resources it was taken to them for keeping me locked. And then he made a proposal. He said if you agree to go quiet, I will end this house arrest now. I immediately answered. I said, mario, you can come in three days, you can come in three years. My answer will be the same Mi compromiso es con la verdad y con la justicia, punto. My commitment is to trust and justice period. The police patrol, the house arrest, the justification of all of the arbitrary procedures is your problem, not mine. I have never felt freer. Under a regime with no respect for justice, rebellion becomes the law. I have thought a lot about this moment afterwards, especially about those two words, truth and justice, and their significance to the protest movement I took part during the year 2021.
Carolina Barrero:The Cuban regime stands as the longest running power in the Western hemisphere, with a history of 64 years marked by oppression, assassination, incarcerations and forced exiles of those who hold differing opinions from the official narrative. This totalitarian regime, dominated by a military elite and the Castro family, has maintained an iron grip on power, allowing only one political party, the Communist Party, to rule, surpassing the bounds of law and justice. It is a nation subjugated by an elite, where justice is itself imprisoned, subjected to the whims and the directive of the Communist Party. Yet the most pervasive and enduring aspect of this regime has been the incessant dissemination of lies, the narrative of the revolution which, with its captivating tale of the guerrilla fighters rising to power in the pursuit of social justice, served as a myth that ensured the establishment of the Cuban regime in the eyes of international opinion. This myth became the tool employed by the state security's propaganda machinery to cultivate the acceptance and normalization of the dictatorship. However, it is essential to recognize that this narrative is merely a mirage, a facade that conceals the harsh reality and atrocities that lie behind the polished image presented to those who dare not to look beyond its surface. If there is a group within society that possesses a deep understanding of the potency of image, the persuasive force of myths and the art of storytelling, it is the artist, writers, the philosophers, the playwrights. They understand the power of images, the components of narratives in stories, and because of it, they are more likely to uncover them, to crack them and eventually, to overcome them.
Carolina Barrero:In the spring of 2018, following the appointment of Miguel Díaz Canel as Raúl Castro's successor, a group of artists took a bold step by utilizing performative intervention in public spaces. Significant was the one bay by a young artist, luis Manuel Otero Alcántara, an art historian, janeliz Núñez. Both in the image behind me, they spread human excrement all over their bodies in front of the Capitolio, which is the seat of the National Assembly. The protest half art, half activism was all blow to social media, and it is spread like gunpowder. Though their artistic expression, artists aim to symbolize and expose the corruption and decay of the regime. These acts serve as a powerful visual statement, capturing the attention of both the public and the authorities by challenging the status quo and defining the limitations imposed on creative expression. These artists courageously shed light on the lives of a regime, sparking though within society. In retrospect, the events of that period signaled the dawn of a new era wherein citizens came to realize that the potential for anti-governmental protest was not merely an abstract aspiration or a dream, but a tangible reality. The actions taken by the artist and activists demonstrated that dissent and opposition to the government had the power to ignite significant change. This awakening among the populace marked a shift in collective consciousness, as people began to recognize their own agency and the potential impact of their voices and actions. From those courageous acts, the Movimiento San Isidro was born in September 2018, followed by the emergence of Group 27N two years later.
Carolina Barrero:The night of November 27, which became the namesake for the later group, witnessed an unprecedented display of public protest. Hundreds of individuals gathered in front of the Ministry of Culture, voicing their hands for an end to political violence, the recognition of civil and political rights and the promotion of pluralism within society. This remarkable demonstration stands as one of the largest protests ever recorded in front of a governmental building. Notably, during this significant event, people utilized their mobile phones to illuminate the darkness of the night. They share and upload images, harnessing the power of social media to disseminate the contagious feeling of freedom that ignited a flame for protest to come.
Carolina Barrero:On January 27, 2021, a smaller group gathered at the Ministry of Culture for another protest. Despite its modest size, the impact of this demonstration deepened the collective awareness. Within mere 30 minutes of our arrival, the area was swiftly surrounded by police and state security forces, effectively preventing the possibility of the largest protest from taking place. The tension and sense of forecoming violence was very tangible, but we decided to respond in a differently manner In the face of this escalating situation. We chose to read a poem titled Dos Patrias by José Martí. Almost if the poem could be the spell that could cast truth, peace and reconciliation. It was our shield against the violence. In the poem, you can read the first two verses Dos Patrias Tengo Yo Cuba y la Noche, o Son una Las Dos. Two Homelands I have Cuba and the Night, or they Are One and Only One.
Carolina Barrero:The year 2021 witnessed a cascade of protests that swept through the nation. One after the other. This protest emerged, eventually culminating in a transformative citizens uprising during the summer. The initial spark ignited by artists in the spring of 2018 was merely a precursor to the monumental event that unfolded thereafter. The citizens themselves emerged as the true protagonist of this movement, as hundreds of thousands took to the streets, united in their call for freedom. The magnitude and scale of these demonstrations were unprecedented, reflecting the deep-rooted desire for change and the collective journey for a society built on principles of liberty and justice. The people, driven by their unwavering determination, fearlessly voiced their demands, refusing to be silenced any longer. This uprising marked a turning point, as the movement transitioned from an artistic and intellectual endeavor to a mass mobilization of citizens from all walks of life. It demonstrated the power of unity and solidarity, as individuals from diverse backgrounds joined forces, transcending differences and standing shoulder to shoulder in the pursuit of freedom.
Carolina Barrero:The subsequent repression following the uprising has resulted in Cuba having the highest number of political prisoners in the Americas, exceeding 1066 individuals according to a recent report by prisoners defenders. It has also led to the largest exodus in the country's history, with activists forced into exile and a pervasive atmosphere of surveillance and control over any form of political dissent. Merely posting a message on Facebook can lead to being can lead you to being targeted and detained in Villa Marista, an notorious center of investigation infamous for its use of white torture techniques. However, despite these repressive measures, the protest movement in Cuba continues to persist. Every day, there remains a possibility for protests to occur, demonstrating the enduring spirit of the resistance.
Carolina Barrero:Just 10 days ago, a significant protest unfolded in Caymanera, a small town in the far east of the country. The images captured during this event depicts a multitude of people marching towards the municipal communist government as they shouted Libertad, vivan los Derechos Humanos and Viva Cuba Libre. This powerful display was a wavering demonstration, served as a poignant reminder that the desire for freedom and the fight for human rights continues. Every day the regime loses credibility. Every day, the democratic forces gain strength. Truth and justice will be the guidance for our potential transition. As the threats holding the regime together begin to unravel, the hues of freedom burst forth.
Marie Berry:Thank you, carolina. I'm so moved. I think you mentioned that the poem served as a shield to the work that all the protesters were doing and that just landed with me in a way that I thought was incredibly moving. So thank you for sharing that and thank you for being here with us today. This is a real honor and a privilege for all of us here in Denver and at the Corbel School. You started your story to us today by talking about a time that you were in house arrest, and I know a little bit about your background as an art historian, as someone who's had a really rich and interesting kind of career in the arts, and I'm curious if you could tell us a little bit more about what triggered your activism that would then lead to you being in a context of house arrest.
Carolina Barrero:Yeah, thank you for asking that. Actually, many people ask me that oftenly. I have many different answers for that and, as I have deepened my own reflection on how actually make me turn to activism, I'm more sure it was the way I was, my background, the way I was raised in my family. I was raised by my grandparents and they were both from Bayamo. I think there is someone here from Cuba. Bayamo is in the far east of the country and was the place where independence war started. So I grew up listening to stories of the war and freedom and everything that the manbithes, this army that fight against the Spanish colonialism, did. I mean seeing stories of how they burned a whole town, actually before they allowed the Spaniards to gain the town back and they lose everything before being submitted again, and those stories were part of my childhood.
Carolina Barrero:I was always very critical with the regime at school but never did protest in public spaces, which is another step you take and I did it. Inspired by the acts of movimientos en incidro, of friends like Luis Manuel Otero Alcántara. They started putting a step out. They started going from galleries the safe phases of galleries Well, you are never safe in a country like Cuba but fairly safe spaces of galleries or studios, to go to the streets and protest and show that the protest was a possibility for all of us, and I was very much inspired by that. We came from starting together, from discussing all of these ideas in a moment previously, to all of this around 2009, 2014,.
Carolina Barrero:While we were in college, and sometimes my house became a place for all of those discussions, like a tertulia kind of place and that was a ferment for everything that happened afterwards and that made me also take a step in and just not just being critical but going to the streets and protesting.
Marie Berry:So, as you began to work with activists, you see a change in some ways in the political environment in Cuba, especially over the past few years, and you really, I think, emphasize that there's always been this tremendous repression, but there was really an amplification of some of this in the last few years. Can you tell us a little bit about what led, what sort of work you were doing and what sort of work other activists were doing that then led eventually to that detention?
Carolina Barrero:Well, resistance is important. To begin by saying resistance to authoritarian regime in Cuba started as long as the 1st of January 1959. This is not new. We're not doing this for the first time. Actually, it was so hard in the 60s that thousands of people we don't know yet how many were sentenced to death, but on fucilados, without trial, at the command of El Che Guevara and Fidel Castro, without any access to justice, just sentenced to death. That is a story we're telling. That is part of the truth we need to find and seek. Also, in the 70s, we have the UMAP. This was like Gulags, basically concentration camps for everyone that look that his or her appearance look like could be different from the hombre nuevo, the new man that the Communist Party was trying to. And this is in the 70s concentration camps. So there is a whole story of resistance we need to honor, especially young generations. But it is also true that this comes with cycles of protests. It comes and goes and at least this last cycle of protests which I referred in my words, I think we can trace it. It started in 2018.
Carolina Barrero:It was a moment right after what it appeared to be in Cuba an openness after the Obama visit. Many of you remember. So there was a sense that change was possible, but then very suddenly that changed back and Raul Castro's policy was to actually close the island. And he appointed because we haven't had free and fair elections in Cuba for a very long time. 1948, was the last time he appointed Raul. That's why I think it's not even wise to call him president. No one voted for him. In any case you can say an appointed president, and their policy was to. Actually, the first law approved by him was decree 349, and it was a decree to limit the freedom of expression and creativeness of artists, because artists started to become kind of rebels and that sparked many of those seminal protests in the artistic movement that then spread.
Carolina Barrero:In a country like Cuba, just to read a poem like this in the street, in the public plaza, in front of the Ministry of Culture, for them it's a crime and actually it threads them and you could say but what kind of poem harm right? Why are they so afraid of a girl reading a poem of 20 people, maybe reading it out loud? It's just a poem, and I would like to actually answer what you said before.
Carolina Barrero:Poetry has the possibility to cast light, the metaphor. Metaphor has the potential to actually let us see reality in a new light, in a new form that a linguajiano playing language cannot. It changes. It is actually sometimes a kind of a spell that breaks mirages or myths, comes with a deepened truth that only in the language of poetry can be said and to face. That was to face the policemen and in front, to confront that reality that they try to and that truth. They try to remain on close, but we use it actually, as I said, as a shield, because it was a moment where all the street was full with police and military and we knew that at any moment something that actually happened, they could come and crack down the protest with violence.
Carolina Barrero:Actually, in the case of that protest, the Ministry of Culture himself a stupor of the building to the street and gave punch to a young journalist that was actually forecasting the whole protest. The Ministry of Culture himself and then the police. Can you imagine if a Ministry of you know, a high officer of the government you know, punch an activist in the middle of the street, he's still the Ministry of Culture and that tells you everything about the nature of the regime.
Marie Berry:Take us to what it felt like at that moment? What was it for you personally? Who were the people around you? What did it feel like every single day? And I'm curious to know whether there was some real hope at the moment that perhaps the protests could make a change. Do you feel like there was that hope or did it always feel very?
Carolina Barrero:futile? No, definitely. Everything has been worth it Everything. When you are in a protest like that, you are not really thinking too much. You actually act by instinct and you take decisions based on how to expose the regime, how to maintain peace, if that possible, and also how to endure violence, because that is actually the most impactful thing you can do. So I think Kuwait is now in a turning point. People thought that maybe, after the crackdown of the summer of 2021 protests, the regime would succeed in suffocating their resistance movement.
Carolina Barrero:However as I said before, kuwait is a country in the Americas with more political prisoners. It is also the country that has faced the largest exodus. It has been the largest exodus in Cuban history and we have had quite a few. This one has been the largest and the control now of the population, the surveillance, is total. However, you know that image. This is 10 days ago. Protest is pretty much alive, much more than in Nicaragua or Venezuela, which is something none of us could have thought Because we come from 60 years of authoritarianism, but it is pretty much there.
Carolina Barrero:The relations between the exiles communities and the activists in Saicuba has also become more has strengthened. We actually did a campaign two months ago to make people aware that if they didn't go to vote in the ratification protests of the Communist Party, that would be a gesture of resistance as well. We call it empty streets July 11th. We show full streets to express the rejection to the regime. Now we will do empty streets, we will stay home. And it was like that In Kuwait you queue for everything. Because there is no food, there is no anything. So every time Cubans are very much, they know how to do a good queue. But for electoral college for that day to vote and ratify the deputies of the National Communist Assembly, no one was there and it was also a form of asylum protest and we did that with the activists inside and with the ones that are in exile, and it was a huge success and it was also a proof that there are more things that unite us than separate us. So I think there is a potential transition. I think everything can happen any moment.
Carolina Barrero:No one could imagine on July 10th that something like July 11th would happen next day Literally not even the people that went to the street the first in San Antonio de los Baños because the protests started by 20 people going out and doing a Facebook Live video and that sparked a chain reaction all over the island that led to hundreds of thousands of people in the street. No one, not even them, could imagine that that would happen. No one could imagine that in Kaimanera. This is the closest town to the La Baza Naval de Guantanamo, the United States base in Cuba, so it is very militarized, it's under great surveillance. The protest had nothing to do with the United States' military base.
Carolina Barrero:No one was saying he wanted to cross, no, it was about freedom. But this was the last town you know. Any of us would imagine that something like this would happen. And it was hundreds of people and they shouted Libertad, Vivan los Derechos Humanos, which I think is pretty straightforward. They were not just saying we are hungry, leave the embargo. No, they were saying freedom, Vivan los Derechos Humanos and, yeah, and abajo la dictadura. So that's pretty much straightforward for a protest. So no one gets confused about the real motives of it.
Marie Berry:Absolutely. I think that's it's very compelling. I know if I can share with everyone that you were forced into exile and for the last year you've lived outside of Cuba. Last year and several months You've lived outside of Cuba. Can you take us through what that has been like for you and what it's been like to begin to do this work, not as somebody living within the country on the island, but actually as somebody abroad, as somebody trying to think strategically and creatively about how we do advance freedom in Cuba in the long run?
Carolina Barrero:I will start by explaining how I was forced into exile, because maybe you are thinking, oh, did they put a gun in my head? Did they just took me to the plane by force? Well, sort of. They didn't put a gun and they didn't put rocks in me and put me on a plane, but they threatened me with other people, especially with mothers of political prisoners that were protesting with me. I organized with them a protest in front of one of the courts where the trials of July 11th were happening. Actually, that day they were judging 33 people. Nine of them were minors of age at that moment and I was with their mothers protesting outside. They stopped the protests with violence. They took all of us to prison.
Carolina Barrero:I was taken to a different prison and this tape police agent came to see me and I was in prison. I was not in my house arrest. I was in Calaboso and he said Carolina, you have 48 hours to leave the country. If you don't go, we will prosecute 12 of the mothers you will protest. And with he gave me a list for public disorder, as if public disorder can be, you know as it's that, you know the love of a mother can be called public disorder. It is for public disorder for them.
Carolina Barrero:Apparently, your friend and activist Daniela Rojo will be will wait for trial in jail because she has already an accusation for her participation in July 11th protest. Your friend, michael Castillo, who is one of the singers and composers of the Son Patre Vida maybe some of you have heard will not receive medical attention in prison and his request for a humanitarian visa will not be attended. If you go, we are not saying we will give it to him, but he will not be attended, definitely he will not receive medical. And then they continue. Your best friend, which is a teacher actually at a university like this one, we will spell her from university. She will not be ever for her, she will not be not be possible to teach anymore inside Cuba. So that is not a decision to make.
Carolina Barrero:When you carry about yourself, your own responsibility is fine. You can choose whatever you want, but when other people and the safety and the security of those people you know it's, you don't have a choice. So it was not a gun, but sort of. So I've been since then in in Excel I. I am in Madrid, which is a place I know it's not the. I went to Madrid to study some years ago. Actually, I hold a Spanish passport, so it hasn't been as traumatic as it is for other people. But of course, the place I want to be is inside Cuba.
Carolina Barrero:However, there is so much to do in Excel. It's just another narrative of the Cuban regime to make you feel that if you go to Excel you're out of the game. You cannot do anything else. Actually, if you know the history of Cuba and many other countries, many things started in Excel In the case of Cuba. For example, the revolution itself, because Fidel Castro came in a yacht after being exiled so. Or the the Independence War. José Martí actually the author of the poem I was reading spent most of his life in Excel and he prepared the war there. He founded the Partido Revolucionario abroad and all the the war of 1995 that ended the colonialism in.
Carolina Barrero:Cuba was prepared from abroad, and now I think activists are beginning to understand that inside and outside Cuba and the strategies they can do together. To be here talking to you to amplify the message is part of our fight too, so that I have tried to use this month to contribute and to amplify the voices of the ones inside that cannot cannot be here with us today.
Marie Berry:2019, people have said, was the year on record with the most protests in the most places across the globe. More people participated in protest movements in 2019, by some counts than at any other time in modern history or recorded history. In some ways, I think this reflects a growing intolerance and recognition with the lack of freedoms that so many people live with in their lives today. I'm wondering for you personally, carolina how has working in community with activists from other parts of the globe, from outside of Cuba, meant? What does that meant for your own work and what have you learned from these other struggles that people have been fighting in different parts of the globe?
Carolina Barrero:I have learned, basically, that we all are facing the same challenges. It's been amazing to me activist woman from Iran, for example, masiya Linajad, that actually lives here in the. States, great activist, and listening to her saying oh, we have so much problem with opposition unity. What's going on, Masiya? And she's telling me exactly the same arguments that we Cubans have been facing for 60 years.
Carolina Barrero:And then you talk to a Venezuelan activist, and it is the same. A Nicaraguan activist, and it is the same. When I talk to Cuban activists about this, we usually say, oh, it's because we are Cubans, and then it's because we are Latin Americans and it's because we don't agree on anything. We are no material. We have these problems.
Carolina Barrero:But then is Iran, and you talk to Russian activists, and it is worse, and China activists, it's all over the world. And then you start to understand there might be some other things. Obviously, possibly, and yes, there are many problems of solidarity, maybe not material enough movements, but also there is an element of design that is introduced there by the regimes themselves, Because they have learned how to create distrust, Because it's the same patterns everywhere. And by sharing this experience with activists, you start thinking globally Also. We live in a different world now than the 20th century. We live in a world of alliance of autocrats. I mean, you cannot just if you talk about Putin. You have to understand that the allies of Putin in Latin America it are Raul Castro, Maduro and Ortega.
Carolina Barrero:Lavrov, which is the foreign minister of Russia, was visiting these three countries a month ago. So it's not just that. Oh yes, they are autocratic. No, they are autocratic regimes working together. It's an alliance, a network of autocrats. So we activists have come to realize that if they work together, so must we. If they strategize together, if they share military information, surveillance information, we also must share strategies on how to bring them down. And it is better if we can think also regionally and globally. We are not as much alone.
Marie Berry:There is a lot of strength and muscle when you create these kinds of alliance, and that is part of what I have learned this year as well, I think that's beautiful, that if the autocrats are working together and they certainly are that those of us on the side of freedom and justice have to be doubling down and working together and finding ways also to overcome the fact that so often the fracturing of these movements for change happens within the movements, but it's caused so often by these regimes through misinformation, through these campaigns sowing the seeds of distrust, these ways in which it's so easy to kind of cause a movement to fracture and to then fizzle. I want to know where art fits into the solution here. In your experience, it seems to me that there is something profoundly powerful and sometimes very universal about the experience of being able to see poetry, to be able to see art, to be able to create in community with other people. Where do you see the arts and artists making a meaningful impact in trying to challenge those autocratic tendencies and networks?
Carolina Barrero:They do, and that is why outgrads fear art is so much, why they repress them, but they are only part of it the citizens and the voice of the citizens, that is what needs to be heard, and artists are part of that process and part of that bigger picture. I think the most important thing that artists do and, as I said, writers, playwriters, even philosophers is to understand the narratives and myths that all of these regimes they have, because what actually sustain a regime, even beyond military forces, state security, is the power of the story that holds them, which is made of lies, which is a mirage, which is something that distracts the audience from the true violations of human rights happening behind. And what artists can do is that they can create cracks on those mirage, because they understand the power of a storytelling, the narratives behind it, and can actually propose artifacts, art that can actually unravel that spell, and I think that's why they are so dangerous and fear by dictators.
Marie Berry:I think that's beautifully put. I want to ask where do we go next and, specifically in terms of the context in Cuba, what is the next step for the movement that opposes the regime? What is your role and perhaps, what can those of us in the audience that are interested in knowing more, learning more, do to be a part of that next step.
Carolina Barrero:It is a very diverse movement. I don't have not the first, not the last voice about it, but one thing we all share is we need to maintain pressure, we need to establish more links, more solidarity, we need to strategize together. We need to expose more the regime. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. The Cuban regime has never been as weak as it is right now, for many reasons. One of them, of course, is the protest movement, which is still very much alive despite the repression. The other one is that the credibility of the Dias Canel appointed government and Raul Castro's regime is very fragile is very difficult to sustain an argument that defends them, especially in the light of everything that happened after July 11. They have no credibility in front of international opinion and no credibility inside Cuba. After the ratification process, the elections that happened on March 26, almost no other country congratulated Dias Canel as appointed president, except, I think, bolivia, venezuela, of course, the usual suspects, but not even among them. He received too many, and I think it was the first time that something like that happened, and what that means is lack of recognition by international community. They are pretty much alone, only with Russia and Venezuela, and that's good news. It is good news for Cuban people because, in the path for freedom, to expose autocrats and not to normalize a dictatorship is very helpful, especially for the democratic forces. So for us it's to keep pushing as much as we can.
Carolina Barrero:Solidarity is also very important. If a group do and I will explain it if a group in Cuba does an action, the rest should support. It doesn't matter if there are difference about I don't know whatever. That doesn't matter. We are all fighting for freedom, so we should stand for each other's safety and support. This is very important. That's why, in Poland, solidaridad was a name given by Waleza to the movement of workers and dos sindicatos, and it has actually been. It has played a key role in all of the protests. All of the protests that I show, and more, because these were just examples were sparked by solidarity, so that is also part of the solution.
Marie Berry:I think that that is at the core of what we've been trying to build at the Inclusive Global Leadership Initiative here at the Corbel School. It's a real how do we help to create a container for the deepening of solidarity between activists from different contexts that may, at the surface level, think the work that they're doing is different, but actually we spend a little time together and we realize that we're all fighting the same battles different stakes, different contexts and oftentimes different material circumstances but the underlying root systems that are harming so many people in the world today are shared.
